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How Embracing Nervousness and Understanding Human Factors Can Transform Your Deals
In this podcast with negotiation expert Derek Chevalier, we dive into the secrets of mastering negotiations and transforming your approach from amateur to pro. Discover how to leverage your own nervousness to your advantage with the surprising strategy of “rope-a-dope,” and learn why understanding the human element in negotiations is crucial for success.
With insights that go beyond mere tactics, Chevalier’s advice reveals how to effectively manage complex negotiations, understand the hidden roles of all participants, and craft strategies that make you the master of your negotiation game.
Ready to up your negotiation skills and walk away with better deals? Read on to uncover the key strategies that will give you the upper hand and turn every negotiation into a win.
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You Can Read the Full Kantar Market Share Transcript Below:
Darren A. Smith:
Alright, alright. Welcome to the world stickies. Learning my name is Darren Smith and my guest is Derek Chevalier. Now Derek and I were just having a great conversation because I was saying how do you pronounce your surname? And you were telling me it’s French and it means nice. Is this right? Wow.
Derrick Chevalier:
OK. Yes, yes, that’s it’s actually a title, right, a Chevalier or knight.
Darren A. Smith:
You said so much better than me.
Derrick Chevalier:
Ha ha ha.
Darren A. Smith:
And also we were discussing Smith and I was saying how boring it is and I love your surname. I love it, I love it. But let’s get down to why we’re here. Derek, you’re an expert on negotiation. I’m going to ask you a question which will be a little bit tough, but I know you’ll take it in the right way. Why should our listeners listen to you when I ask you questions about negotiation? Right. Have you been doing it a while?
Derrick Chevalier:
Ha. I’ve been doing it awhile and I think the benefits that can come from the experience that I have is that people can transform their interactions with other human beings.
Darren A. Smith:
Nice.
Derrick Chevalier:
It’s a process that can be adapted to virtually any element or aspect of both personal and professional life, child rearing to business, yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, yeah. I mean I always say in negotiation, I can negotiate with anyone. But my kids, you know, they just win. But you know, we both know that.
Derrick Chevalier:
Exactly.
Darren A. Smith:
Now I’ve got.
Derrick Chevalier:
The younger they are, the more true that is.
Darren A. Smith:
Oh, I want a lolly. I want a lolly. I want a. Oh, come on. You’ve worn me down. Have 4 lollies, alright? So you and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago and I said well, let’s ask the questions that people are asking on Google, which I’ve got here. And you said, yeah, you can answer those questions. So that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to ask you the questions that the folks are mostly asking on Google, like 10,000 hits a month, alright.
Derrick Chevalier:
OK. Sure.
Darren A. Smith:
So let’s start with the first one. Nice easy one to get us going. What do you mean by negotiation, that’s what the folks are asking.
Derrick Chevalier:
Sure. So it’s a formal or informal process of either conflict resolution or problem resolution. Essentially. That’s as simple as it is, you know, a process for resolving.
Darren A. Smith:
I like it.
Derrick Chevalier:
Either issues or questions or conflicts.
Darren A. Smith:
Alright, nice. Nice. Alright, nice and simple. For folks watching or listening to this show and they’re thinking I can’t negotiate. I don’t like negotiating and I avoid it. Just a couple of thoughts for them before I move on to our second question.
Derrick Chevalier:
Right, sure. Quick disclaimer, everything that I’ll talk about is based upon the proprietary negotiation framework that we use in Harrison Chevalier. So that is actually called CNSUF or snuff negotiating for short, right? So right. So.
Darren A. Smith:
Locked up. Right. Snuff locked it. Yep.
Derrick Chevalier:
If we’re looking, go ahead. What was the question again? I wanted to give that disclaimer. Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cool. So if there’s folks out there that are listening or watching and they’re thinking, how do I negotiate? I don’t like this negotiating thing, isn’t it just people who bang their fists on tables? I know it’s not, but go on.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yeah. Sure. Right, that’s such a great question because I’ve learned over, especially in the last couple of years. We’ve done a lot of research and found that people are reluctant to negotiate. And that also a lot of people believe that negotiation can be learned simply through experience. So here’s the rub. Whether you want to negotiate or not is a choice, but we are always negotiating because essentially, by the very definition that we just shared. Every interaction with a human being, and if you look at the pundits in Physiology, it’s a great book called *The Body Keeps the Score*.
Derrick Chevalier:
We are both negotiating with ourselves, but we are certainly negotiating every situation and every interaction that we’re in with other human beings. The question is, are we doing that by osmosis because we are impacted by our sociology, education, the political system that we grow up in, and the institutions we’re raised in. So are we doing it on purpose or by mistake? I would say that the difference between a layperson and a professional negotiator is that they’re engaged in the same process. One is using a formula as if a cook or a baker would use a recipe and another is doing it by rote memory or by experience.
Darren A. Smith:
Nice. I like that. I like that. I like the recipe metaphor with the cook and the baker. Just come back to *The Body Keeps the Score*. I haven’t read that one, but I assume it’s on Amazon and blah blah blah. OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s a great book that talks about the fact that very much of what and who we are is a part of where we’ve come from. And that particular book talks a lot about trauma and it talks about the trauma that we experience all the way back into the womb, being a part of our DNA and writing part of the script for who we become.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
And how we handle situations that we’re involved in, what memories trigger us into various mental, physical, and physiological states, right. So. That’s why somebody can hear a door slam. I was a combat veteran and that’s why somebody that’s been in an acute situation can hear somebody raise their voice or have a particular tone of voice, speak at a particular pitch or rate and immediately be triggered into a physiology that was part of their upbringing, right? So. That is going to occur when we’re interacting with people, which is why it’s very important to be mindful of not only what we say, but how we say it to whom we’re speaking to.
Darren A. Smith:
In episode 2 that you and I are going to do, I’m going to segue you into that. We’re going to talk about you being a combat veteran, but right now I’m going to move on now just for the folks at home. I want to give them a snippet. So we’re going to make this some big stuff and some small stuff. When they’re in conflict and negotiations, conflicts, it’s problem solving, it’s getting something resolved. Have you got a small top tip we can give to these guys? And they’re like, oh, give me something. Derek, give me something.
Derrick Chevalier:
Alright, that’s OK. No, that’s fine. Sure. Negotiate people and not problems.
Darren A. Smith:
Oh oh, you’ve got to expand on that. I love that. Go on.
Derrick Chevalier:
First of all, most people are focused on their wants, their needs, and the desired outcome so.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
They are focused on the details of the issue, their position versus their counterpart’s position. But. We’re dealing with human beings, so a lot of you think about chess. Chess is often a great metaphor for negotiation, right? And also sport. Are a great metaphor for negotiation. However, in the snuff framework we talk about well, where isn’t chess a good metaphor? Well, here’s where it’s different in chess than in life. In chess, every chess board, no matter what it’s made out of, comes down to 8 squares, 8 down and eight across. We know who the players are, and every player has a prescribed role.
Darren A. Smith:
Good.
Derrick Chevalier:
A role they can only move at certain times. They have particular limitations and no matter where you are in the world, those limitations are the same. There’s only been a couple major changes in chess in the last 400 years, so we know what the rules are and we know what the players’ positions are. That is not true in life. We don’t know who. We may know what their titles are, but we don’t know who they are. We don’t know what role they’re playing in that negotiation.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm.
Derrick Chevalier:
We don’t know their limitations in terms of power or capability and we don’t have access to the same input that they do. So therefore that human interaction is much more complicated because you want to identify the role, position, and objectives of the person you’re interacting with. By contrast, here’s sport.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
And this comes down to what we’ll talk about a little bit is transactional negotiation. So many people use sports as a metaphor for negotiation. All right, snuff point. What is the difference between life and between sports? That’s a big one. In a sports competition, whether it’s cricket or tennis or bowling or football or soccer, whatever it is. How many people can see the scoreboard?
Darren A. Smith:
OK, alright.
Derrick Chevalier:
How many? I’m gonna ask you a question. How many people see the scoreboard at a sporting event?
Darren A. Smith:
So all the players and all the spectators are seeing the big board here.
Derrick Chevalier:
So how do you know who won you or what the score is? You look at the scoreboard and it tells you who is in which position. It also tells you how much time you have left to compete.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
In life, when we go into a negotiation, how many scoreboards do we get to see?
Darren A. Smith:
None. OK, OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Only our own, only our own. The rest is conjecture and assumptions and presumptions and estimates about what we think about where that other person is. So more often than not, while we’re very accurate looking at a sports event, we have no clue what the score is in an actual negotiation, which is one of the reasons that snuff negotiation.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.
Derrick Chevalier:
Transcends the idea of win-win negotiation. You look at that as a misnomer. We use the term, but only in as much as other people use the term for that very reason. You’ll only see one scoreboard.
Darren A. Smith:
Sure. OK, OK, alright. Alright. Let’s pick up some more on that. We’ll come back to one of our questions from dear old Google. It says what are the seven steps to negotiating now? Some people talk about 567. It doesn’t really matter how many steps do you talk about.
Derrick Chevalier:
Sure, sure. So we don’t so much look at steps. We have a set of rules. There are 7 rules in the snuff programme. But we do look at an overall process and that comes from another book that I highly recommend called “Coopetition” by Brandenberger and Nalebuff. The acronym that they use is PART.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. What?
Derrick Chevalier:
And we use that overall. So the steps involved in PART mean who are the players involved in the negotiation.
Darren A. Smith:
Yep. And grab a pad. Yep.
Derrick Chevalier:
Right, who are both unknown, but also the unknown players in the negotiation.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
Then we look at the added value of each player in that negotiation and added value, the way we’ve adapted this into snuff, is actually what does each individual in the negotiation bring to the table that would not be there if they weren’t there. So that’s really how we determine what the position or value of someone is.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. Yep.
Derrick Chevalier:
In a negotiation, what is the added value of that person, right, each both our own and the folks that are on our team as well as each of the players on the other team? The added value then speaks to rules. What are the rules? Are we using competitive rules? Are we using rules? So as you said, some people use seven steps, some people use 534. The question is what framework of negotiation?
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm.
Derrick Chevalier:
Is the underlying foundation, so if you’re dealing with someone with skill, they’ve got some kind of a formal background. If you’re dealing with someone who’s only negotiating based on their experience, then that experience is their limitation. Obviously, the limitation of that individual has is directly correlated to the experience what they’ve learned, but also what they’ve missed. As a result of that experience, so the rules are actually dictated by the added value of the players as well as the access to information on both sides, rules dictate tactics. So if I say that I’m negotiating competitively in a particular framework, that framework has a set of rules the same as.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm. OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Engaged in combat, if you will. So the tactical rules will be dictated by the position of the players and the added value of each, right? So you have rules that now get tactics and then tactics are basically the strategy. So we look at the information that we have, we look at the rules that we are abiding by or the lack thereof. And then based upon that set of rules.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm.
Derrick Chevalier:
We look and identify specific tactics that are going to be related to those rules, right? Because if I’m in a competitive mode, there are certain tactics that I would not use if I was in a cooperative mode, right? So if we’re in a cooperative mode, I may not. The ethics are impacted. Morality is impacted. But again, that’s a big question because, well. Many people think well, I would never do XY or Z as a tactic in a negotiation. That’s great. The limitation there is that you have no control over what the other person’s ethics and morals are, so that if you have a limitation that your counterpart doesn’t have, you are at a quantitative disadvantage because you may be assuming that because you wouldn’t do something.
Derrick Chevalier:
They too would not do something. And if they did do it, you would be surprised and therefore at a disadvantage. And then finally, S stands for scope, and that has to do with how significant the negotiation is. And we look at scope and significance all based on consequences. If the consequences of a negotiation are.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Consequences that we can deal with or that will not impact us. Those would be relatively minor if the consequences, both known and unknown, are greater than that. Negotiation has more significance. So those are the parts. That’s what we start with in terms of the analytical approach that we’re going to take.
Darren A. Smith:
OK, so I went one step ahead and then realized I’d gone too far and you can see where I did that.
Derrick Chevalier:
There we go. Yep. Yep.
Darren A. Smith:
So OK, I was just capturing where we’re going, so parts then you talked about added value rules, tactics, you mentioned strategy, but that was part of that and then scope got done. OK, OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Right, tactics are used to develop strategy.
Darren A. Smith:
Gotcha. Gotcha. OK. All right. Got it, got it. All right. So you guys don’t necessarily talk about steps specifically, it’s more about parts. OK. I like the mnemonic. I like it. OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yep. Sure, sure. Right, right.
Darren A. Smith:
Let’s get on to one that folks talk about a lot and they’re asking is haggling the same as negotiating?
Derrick Chevalier:
Not by presumption, presumption trumps reality. So ultimately. Today and we coined that phrase 25 years ago. So in the past, people will say, well, presumption is reality, not in the 21st century when you’re dealing with AI, most people don’t know whether or not something was created by a robot or by software and artificial intelligence. Or rather, it. Whether it’s real, we used to say years ago in the audio field. Is it real or is it Memorex and only your older only your? Yeah. When in the days of tape. So today you have that same thing. So ultimately though.
Darren A. Smith:
I remember that I remember Memorex. I remember. Yeah, I have. Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
Presumption, what I presume to be true will dictate my behaviour. So if I believe that it’s a presumption, meaning I’m taking an action. Based upon my assumption, I’m now in action. That’s the difference between an assumption and a presumption. So I presume meaning I’m in action. I take that action and that’s going to create an alternate action, right?
Darren A. Smith:
OK, sure. Memorex was, was the icon a skeleton? Was that the guy who was selling it? No.
Derrick Chevalier:
I don’t remember. There were a lot of commercials of is it real or is it Memorex? So, presumption trumps reality. So haggling therefore is primarily limited to transactional negotiation, transactional negotiation, meaning that we are talking about buying or selling goods or services. Right. So in that process haggling very often.
Derrick Chevalier:
Involves price more than anything else, so when we’re haggling, we’re simply going back and forth, arriving at a place. Generally, either we’re going to split the difference or we’re never going to split the difference depending on our background, right?
Darren A. Smith:
Yes. Yeah. It. Most people believe they negotiate, but they’re actually haggling, in my opinion, when there are a bizarre or they’re buying Roy bands, you know they’re buying those 100 LB Roy bands, which are normally 400, but you can have them for a fiver at this market. Brilliant. Brilliant. We got a love boat. Guys love them.
Derrick Chevalier:
Right, right. Right. That it’s transactional, right? So we’re talking about only.
Generally, talking about the price or about a specific term and where we’re going to land before we come to an agreement.
Darren A. Smith:
Yes.
Derrick Chevalier:
Whereas a negotiation is a far more complex. Orchestration of those five parts because we have a tactic, strategies, rules that we’re implementing and it depending on that framework, it’s going to lead us in one direction or another. So I think there I would also say formal versus informal haggling and again also haggling very frequently is associated to issues that don’t have much consequence.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
Bizarre. And you spend 300 instead of 500. It’s not likely to break the bank right one way or another. It’s more about the psychology of I won.
Darren A. Smith:
I got my royal bands for half the price of what he offered them. Brilliant, brilliant. They made my face go green. But hey, I got them half prime.
Derrick Chevalier:
Exactly. Thanks.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah. All right, let’s come back to our questions. Let me just you talked about transactional negotiations. Just give us the other end of that scale, would you? So we’ve got this one, what’s the other one?
Derrick Chevalier:
So in snuff, we look at transactional, but we also look at a complex and a comprehensive. So a complex negotiation is going to involve more than a single issue. And very often it’s going to involve more than one person group or section, right. So if I’m negotiating with you as in a buying and selling.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
Situation. I’m actually not negotiating with you. I’m actually negotiating the limitations that have been placed on you by your employer or by.
Whoever it is that is also engaged, if you have a lawyer or if you have an advisor, then or your wife, your husband, your child, your boyfriend, girlfriend, they are part of that equation. And if I don’t realize that then I could negotiate with you. And then that means that I’ve transferred the power and the likely outcome away from myself, place it in your hands, and then give you the opportunity to go and negotiate on my behalf right now, from my perspective, or from a professional negotiator’s perspective, if you could do a better job of selling my perspective, then I can then I shouldn’t have that job. What am I for?
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
But I first have to realize.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Am I negotiating with you because you’re a decision maker or going back to that parts are you the player that’s actually just bird dogging? For instance, if you go to buy an automobile in Europe and many other parts of the world, the structures very much the same, right? That is, people haggle for a used car because you’re talking directly to the owner. We go to buy a car. You go into a showroom, you start to look at the vehicle. Someone’s going to approach you and that’s going to be the salesperson. Generally that person more often than not is only a bird dog. They’re not actually the person you’re going to buy the car from, right? Their position there is really to find out your preferences, your limitations, to find out who else do you have to talk to your wife, your husband, your brother, your sister, all of that.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
And then once they find all that and you say yes, I’d like that car. They’re gonna hand you off to the finance person. Who’s gonna look at your credit report and tell you all the reasons why what the salesperson told you wasn’t quite true or why the ad that you saw, that it was only £10 a month actually, you know, £300 a month, right? And then there will be, I just had this happen a few weeks ago going in to look at a car and then after that person. The finance person. Then comes the closer and often the finance is the closer, but after that will then be the sales manager or the director. So I understood when I was dealing with the salesperson that their objective was to find out as much as they could so that they could hand me off to the finance person who could then hand me off to a manager. Right.
That prospect.
Darren A. Smith:
And and and. How did you change that that process, did you say I want to speak to that person or how did you do it differently to most would?
Derrick Chevalier:
Well, first of all, that’s a great question because first of all. By understanding who the players are by understanding that this is a complex negotiation. There are other players involved. It’s a significant purchase for most people, right? You’re spending quite a lot of money. And so I’m going to that and what I’m doing is I might ask you. So Darren ultimately, are you? What authority do you have in terms of providing me with a final price?
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah. Yeah. OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Now that’s going to tell me something about your ethics, isn’t it? Because if you know, I wouldn’t. But if you know that I am going to talk to the finance person and to the manager ultimately. And I ask you well. What are the limits of your authority and told me no. We’re going to negotiate the price I give you is what it is. Now. You may have decided that you like me. You may have decided that I seem like an honest person. You may have decided. That I just told you the truth. Now what you don’t realize is in that moment that nice smiling person who you believe just told you the truth, just lied to your face.
Derrick Chevalier:
Right. Just lied to your face now and and you asked the question of, well, how do I do that? So I will often if someone says no, whatever the price in the case of a couple of weeks ago, someone said, yeah, no, you’re negotiating with me. And I said so. So we’re able to come to a contractual agreement without my speaking to anybody else. He said, well, no, I don’t have to have my, my, the finance look at that deal. And I said great and I said so you didn’t just fibb to me, did you? Well, no.
Derrick Chevalier:
Well, that changes it completely. Dynamically turns beet red and, well, not really old. Yeah, you just fit them. But I said it in a nice way, right? I said, you know, it would be different if I said, well, you’re a liar and that’s unethical. And I want to speak to somebody else. I could have done that and changed the dynamic by understanding who the players are, right.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah. Yep. So did you did you get a car?
Derrick Chevalier:
Well, we have not decided on the final vehicle because we ended up going on a we had a business trip the next day. So I let’s take a look, but I will tell you this in that specific negotiation with the salesperson, the finance person did get involved. They were offering us a interest rate of 7.25%. Then when the finance person came and said, well, if you’re able to make that decision today.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm.
Derrick Chevalier:
I’m going to be able to get that down for you. A full point to 6.25% and I said well, that’s that’s great. Let’s go with the 6.25%. And then I said, oh, you know, actually, I was looking at this car. I think I saw a much lower interest rate. I’m gonna have to check that the manager then came up and said, look, I’m just gonna cut to the chase. If you’re willing to make that decision now and get you down.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm hmm.
Derrick Chevalier:
To 4.5%.
Darren A. Smith:
Wow, three points in half an hour. Not bad.
Derrick Chevalier:
Now when I go back to get that car, I will get it less than. I’ll get it less, but that all happened in a very short period of time, all very nice and friendly and at the end, one of the things that I did was I said, you know, I do a little bit of negotiating and I know that the sales manager was signing to the side was looking well. He had looked me up on the Internet. So at the end, that’s when the manager came over to say, well, I know you’re in. Let’s get rid of all the negotiate. Well, yeah, just cut to the chase. OK. All right. Now, let me ask you a quick question before we go on.
Darren A. Smith:
Hi, life. Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
Let’s say that I didn’t have that background and I said to your audience, walked in and said, you know, my brother’s a professional negotiator. I’m going to have to talk to them. And they always tell me that there is a better percentage rate if I look at several other dealerships. So unless you can give me a much better price or interest rate, I think I’m going to leave and go look for that. I’ll guarantee you 80% of the time you’re going to get a lower interest rate or price.
Darren A. Smith:
Good tip. Like it like it. All right? And I’ve realised two things. One, we’ve been talking for quite a while and two, we need to do another one. So what I’m going to do, if it’s all right with you is I’m going to ask you a last question and promise the readers that we’ll invite you back.
Derrick Chevalier:
Good day. OK. Great.
Darren A. Smith:
So let me just look at what other people are asking, all right, so. People are saying. It’s conflict, it’s negotiation, it’s tough. I get a bit jittery and my voice goes up and down I breathe shallow and my arms are everywhere. What advice do you have? You got for them that helps them go a bit more.
Derrick Chevalier:
My advice would be don’t go. Know thyself, know thyself. If you know that you’re going to become discombobulated, your heart rate’s going to increase, you’re gonna get nervous, use it. There’s a tactic called rope-a-dope.
Darren A. Smith:
OK.
Derrick Chevalier:
Rope-a-dope is a process in which I know. What do I look like if I’m nervous and flailing and there? Well, play what you are. So that makes the salesperson feel empowered. Feel that they’re dominating the relationship. Let them feel that way. So why? Because the less competition they believe you are, the lower their resistance will go because they start to think, you know what I got them. So we would. Rope-a-dope is actually it comes from, we’ll get into the story next time. But the bottom line is.
Darren A. Smith:
Mm.
Derrick Chevalier:
Sometimes being a little dumb, right is smart and sometimes being a little smart is dumb, so play into the idea that you’re uncomfortable and say that you know what? I’m really nervous. Another side tactic to that would be one in that same vein in which I would say, you know what? I’m so nervous. Darren, explain this to me like I’m a 5 year old.
Darren A. Smith:
Nice.
Derrick Chevalier:
That will automatically disarm the counterpart, who will then begin to speak to you almost as though you’re a child. And as they do that, the actual inconsistencies within their presentation, what look like small fissures, are now entire craters and suddenly, as you do that, you’re not faking it. But as you slow down.
Darren A. Smith:
Nice.
Derrick Chevalier:
You slow them down, lower their expectation. Now they’re going a lot slower and you’re like, I’m not sure I got that. And would you, what about this one? What about that one? As you begin to get a clearer picture, you will automatically develop more confidence and be able to make better decisions about what you ought to do.
Darren A. Smith:
I like that. I like that of the whole of the last 40 minutes or so, we’ve been talking. That is my favourite bit. I love that. And you called it rope-a-dope. Is that what it’s called? Yeah, I haven’t heard of that.
Derrick Chevalier:
Alright, love it. Yeah, that’s actually a closing tactic that we use.
Darren A. Smith:
Oh, OK, OK, I’ll need to know.
Derrick Chevalier:
It’s also called rope-the-dope or rope-a-dope. We call rope-a-dope.
Darren A. Smith:
OK, OK, the reason I particularly like that is there’s a lot of people who are nervous about the conflict, nervous about that negotiation and all the advice that I have seen so far is they’ve got to try and calm down and blah, blah, blah. You’re saying forget that. Do it the way you are. I love that. I love it.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yeah, yeah. Be who you are and use it. So that’s where I’ll share this with. That’s where we work. When we’re working, we do as you know, we do a lot of consulting. So apart from training, consulting would be where someone would call and say, hey, I’m going to go buy a car. And I’d like some tips on how to do that. Well, I’m not going to give every person that calls the same 5 tips because they’re not going to work for many people. I’d have a brief conversation.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
Derrick Chevalier:
About well, how do you feel about conflict? How nervous do you get? What limitations are you? Who else is involved that I’d ask those questions. And then if someone said to me, well, I get very nervous, I would give them advice similar to I just shared with you. On the other hand, if they had a little more skill or a little more strategic and had a little more sophistication, I might give them a strategy that was a little more complex than that.
Darren A. Smith:
OK, OK, fabulous, fabulous. Alright, Derek, you’ve been fabulous. You’ve answered a whole bunch of questions that the folks have asked on Google.
Derrick Chevalier:
Yeah. Thank you.
Darren A. Smith:
What we’re going to do with this podcast now is highlight some of those points. Put it out there into the world. Folks will love it. And we’re going to ask you to come back.
Derrick Chevalier:
I would love to do that. It’s great. I wanna thank you for the invitation and thank your listeners and your viewers for watching and I appreciate and look forward to seeing you again.
Darren A. Smith:
Be great. Now, just before we go, I’m going to come back to the the Morris Chevalier now. He was a 1930s actor. Was he an uncle?
Derrick Chevalier:
Sure, sure, sure. No, no, I because I wasn’t in the will. So if he if he was, I wasn’t that close. ’cause the family didn’t get included in the. In the will.
Darren A. Smith:
Sam, I feel like that about some millionaire Smiths that maybe have gone. OK, alright, alright. You’ve been fabulous. Thank you.
Derrick Chevalier:
There we go. Thank you.
Darren A. Smith:
We’ll invite you back. And for everyone out there, thank you for listening. This has been Derek Chevalier, our negotiation expert. Thank you for coming in. And you’ve been at the world’s stickiest learning, Darren Smith. Take care, everyone.
Derrick Chevalier:
Great. Thanks so much.
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