Vodafone’s Group Compliance Culture Manager, Yogesh Ghandi, talks O.S.C.A.R Coaching cards with MBM CEO, Darren A. Smith.
Join Darren as he asks Yogesh what makes him the perfect person to have written this fantastic deck of Coaching Cards. The O.S.C.A.R Coaching model expands on the well-known G.R.O.W Model to focus on solutions rather than problems. Looking at the; Outcome, Situation, Choices, Actions and Review – O.S.C.A.R.
Read the full OSCAR Coaching Cards Podcast transcription below:
Darren A. Smith
Welcome to the world stickiest learning. I’m Darren Smith and more importantly, we’ve got Yogesh Gandhi here. How are you?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
I’m very good. And thank you for having me with you today.
Darren A. Smith
Hey, the pleasure’s mine. The pleasure’s mine. We’re talking all about the Oscar coaching cards that you created. And here’s one I prepared earlier.
We’ll come back to that.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Here too.
Darren A. Smith
And that’s a fabulous background. Absolutely Fabulous. So first thing to say is a big thank you for creating it. We’re going to ask you some really simple but hopefully insightful questions around what are these things that you created these coaching cards, Oscar coaching cards, how do they work, how do they benefit people? And why did you do it? But let’s let’s go right back to the start and begin with a a really nice question around.
Why should we listen to you when we talk about Oscar coaching? I know we should, but please tell the viewers out there.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
I think whether you choose to listen to me or not, I think you should definitely choose to listen with the intent of knowing why is coaching so important in today’s world. And I look at coaching as an essential life skill that managers must have leaders must have, and I also look at coaching as an essential service. Everybody should be making accessible for themselves, so look at it as you know, if you’d if you’ve not been feeling well.
Thinking about going to AGP is bit of a no brainer.
And nowadays, in the world of complexity vulnerability, all of that we’re living in, it’s essential that all of us take benefit of coaching. And I’ve been coaching since and I’ve seen how dramatically it has impacted and changed people’s lives. People who’ve benefited from some of those things. And I myself, apart from being a coach, I’m also a coaching to somebody.
And I’ve seen how it has changed me and I feel the change that has come about in me in last five years has been bigger than what I’ve been able to imagine.
Or any of the previous years, and that only happened because somebody said would you like to be part of the coaching community? And I said, well, why not? Well, once I was thankful that I didn’t overthink that opportunity. And I said yes and I’m really, really glad that I did. And I feel that’s a skill that leaders and managers must be able to demonstrate more and more in today’s world.
Google’s project oxygen has clearly outlined that, you know, it’s one of the most crucial skills. Yet it’s also one of the most underdeveloped ones.
What it means is, as leaders and managers, if you’re not using coaching, you’re not making the most of the potential that lies within the individuals in your team as well as your wider teams and functions as well.
Darren A. Smith
Very true, very true. I am also a coach and a coachee, and some of the best conversations are those ones where my coach asks me a question and you sort of do this and this and you think that’s a great question. That’s really got me squirming. That’s the question. I didn’t want you to ask. Love that love that. All right, let’s ask you about the product. So you created these coaching cards. Would you tell us a bit about this product product?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith
And why you chose Oscar?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah. So quick thing about the Oscar model and most people are familiar with slightly better known model called as Group which was invented by John Whitmore.
Oscar actually builds on top of that model and brings in the critical review stage and I feel where Oscar really differentiates from grow is its ability to bring on board continuous learning, continuous evolution and continuous adaptation that’s necessary for us to remain as lifelong learners.
And what it also does is.
Darren A. Smith
OK.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Moves away the focus from problem oriented situations to a much more solely solution oriented approach. Much more strength oriented approach, which means you are invoking all the positive things within your coaching as they go on the journey of transformation and the journey of change. Now that’s the reason why I chose to go with Oscar because it unpacks a lot more potential. The other thing that happens with Oscar is you bring in an element of review which is necess.
For a coach and coach to remain in Rapport, so you come from one coaching session to another coaching session, and if you’re always looking at very different disjointed goals right then you don’t have much of a common sort of a platform to connect on. However, if you’re really working on something ground breaking something long term, then the R of the Oscar model allows you.
To sort of, you know, start up from where you left in the previous conversation. So it gives you an easy opportunity to latch on to and then, you know, it also means that as a coachee, the feeling you have is.
My coach gets me, he remembers what we discussed the last time around. And so, you know, there is an element of holding somebody to account through what you agreed you will do and we are now reviewing what was done, what was the outcome of it, what did you learn, et cetera. So you move from one coaching conversation to another coaching conversation in much more seamless way in much more connected way. And so that means the engagement is.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Much more longer term, but it is much more rappo based. It much more trust based et cetera.
And that’s why I chose Oscar coaching model over some of the other ones.
Darren A. Smith
So it’s it’s almost Rosca our Oscar. OK, I’m going to patent that. So so we got the review right through and then the review again it it lines up in a chain, I get that and I’ve never heard before a comparison between grow and Oscar, you’re talking about this more review, I get that it’s more solution orientated than problem orientated and more about potential, OK, OK, fabulous.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yes, 100%. So what you’re essentially looking at is you’re trying to invoke all the positives that you have in front of the cochi because imagine if I’m continuously talking to you about your current environment, your current reality, your current obstacles, your current problems. After a while, it becomes exhausting for the human mind as against. If I change my approach and say, you know, So what can we do about it? When have you done this before? That yielded success, right. What are some of the strengths that you could bring into?
When was the last time you did this and you were really good at that? What do other people see in you and recognise you? For the moment, I start tapping into the positives that the person brings in, right? The coach is a bit more engaged and there’s another wonderful thing that’s happening. It’s already encouraging the coachi to look at the situation with much more positive mindset and much more. I can do this because in some ways I’ve done this in the past, which means.
There are ready references for success. You could borrow from that can propel you to take that really important action and move you forward on your journey of achieving your goals.
Darren A. Smith
Love it. Love it. All right, let’s let’s get into the products. We’ve got a lovely picture of you here.
Fabulous. Fabulous. We’ve got coaching cards, so I’m just going to pull these out-of-the-box and then ask you to talk through what’s here.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith
So.
Let’s start. So we’ve got these cards. So what’s? What’s this I’m holding?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Essentially, you know these are a set of different cards with a few cards thrown between that are great for instructions and good things to remember etcetera. So cards correspond to the five different stages of the Oscar model, starting with objectives, the situation, the options, the choices and consequences, actions and review. So Oscar in each of these stages you’ll see questions each.
Now does it mean you need to ask all the questions? Not really.
Sometimes you’ll get answer through asking one question if you asked it really well. Knowing the context in which you’re asking. Or you could ask two or three to further clarify. Essentially what this does is these cards are a great tool set for people who not be fully trained to become a coach. So for instance, your align manager and there are number of different things you’re doing, but these cards will give you a ready model for you to kind of, you know, pick up a few questions.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Practise your coaching skills and the more you use the cards, the better you become on using them and the other thing is when you have something really handy to kind of work with.
You don’t have the anxiety of knowing, oh, what’s the next question I should be asking because as a coach, that’s one of the biggest mistakes you could make is while the coach is speaking, you’re already thinking of what’s the next question I need to ask. Now these cards will take away that pressure from you, which means when you’re coaching somebody, you could actually be fully present taking in the information that your coach is sharing and then your follow up questions could be based on.
A further enquiry going a bit more deeper, et cetera and then you know you seamlessly move from one stage to another, which means at every stage of the model.
You are working through clear outcomes that you’ve now received thanks to, you know some clever questions that have been already designed for you and you kind of reached that final stage of, you know, completing the review, et cetera, and the outcome of the session is a lot more engaging, a lot more productive and something that koochi can take away and say, you know what, I think that was really great conversation.
Darren A. Smith
I love that you’re absolutely right about coach being present for the person and it is distracting. If you’re thinking for that next question because you’re not present, you’re absolutely right. So we’ve got the five stages of Oscar, which we’ve talked about.
This is just a card saying first stage which is outcome and then it goes into the first questions which I’m going to grab here. So the first question in here they’re numbered, but as you say you haven’t got to ask all questions. Wow, you’ve been there forever.
So the first question in the stage of O is this one. So why don’t you write? I’m not going to ask you that for all these questions, but why this particular question, did you think that that would be useful?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah.
Yeah. So imagine, you know, acoustic comes to you and you know, you obviously go through those moments of, you know, where he is. You’re just checking in, well-being. And all of that with each other. And then, you know, you start speaking about something soon enough. You might recognise that, you know, the conversations is really going in in different directions. Right. That first question really grounds you in terms of why are we seeing each other today, right.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah, yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
And then you know what want to get out of this sessions. So lots of times imagine if somebody’s come to you and they’re kind of all over the place and they’re really feeling it right.
A question like this allows you to understand whether they want the coach today to just be with them and hear what they have to share, or they actually want to kind of make a progress in relation to what they’ve brought to the table. So you know, you come here and you know, you’re really emotional about something. Do you want the coach to just be there with you and listen to you? Are you in the mood today for us to go through the solutioning phase at all?
And in some cases, you know the coachee will tell you as to, you know, what do they want out of the session and and that question is a great reminder to kind of, you know start from that place which is I’m sure right.
But I’m here to do a job for you. And and my job is to ensure we make progress towards that. So that first question about the objective there, what do you want to get out of the session today, right. We’re not talking about what do you want to achieve, what do you want to get in relation to the goal?
Darren A. Smith
Yes, yes, I get that. I perfectly get that. And and sometimes certainly as a coach, he I think I’ve said to my coach a couple of times in the last few years, I’m just not up for it today. I’m just not and that’s OK, you know, I’m not either in the mood for it. I’ve got too much going on. I’m just going to roll through this. I don’t want to roll through it. I want it to be useful, useful for us both. So I think it’s perfectly good to say, hey, today’s not my day.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith
I’m going to ask you to pick a stage and then I’m going to pick a card and we’re going to show that question.
What stage would you like me to pick? Hopefully I can find it.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Let’s go for choices you know.
Darren A. Smith
OK.
Right. So.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Why? Why? I like this stage before we get into the detail of questions etcetera is because you know, when we’re talking about choices, we’re not just talking about what are the different options you could be doing in relation to your goal. So if I were to compare it with groove, we are talking about option stage of the groove model, right option is well, I could go go this path, this path, this path et cetera. But with choices, what we what we’re trying to also do in this model is we’re also trying to recognise the consequences of picking up.
Darren A. Smith
Good.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
This is right so often in life when you say yes to something, essentially you’re saying no to something else, so you know you are basically invoking a deeper sense of inquiry here. So if you choose to do something, what outcome are you anticipating out of it? Right. So we’re also looking at consequences, the impact not just on what it might change for you, but we’re, we’re probably also looking at what it might change in relation to other people who might be involved in that ecosystem, right.
Environment that you you could possibly affect with the choices and so in this case it basically goes into a much more deliberate stage of analysis wherein you’re looking at number of different options. You might probably then you know, prioritise them, you may stack them, you might say all these options, maybe this look looks like a low hanging fruit or you might say you know what actually this is more important for me, but it’s going to take XYZ amount of time and resources.
I feel like that’s the one that I want to make an investment of my time and effort in.
So you know that much more considered approach to choices is is what you get with this model.
Darren A. Smith
It’s perfect sense, perfect sense. So if I grab one of the questions at random from choices, it’s this one.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, this is a classic question. You know, even for people who might be going for the interviews, etcetera, you’re often asked, like, when was the last time you learned from a mistake? Right. And and this is what’s really crucial that in life, all of us go through situations where in, you know, some things we we we do we yield success. And then you’ll also come across situations where in things didn’t go to plan.
And I think, you know, start of this conversation, we spoke about that lifelong learning approach, which is.
It’s OK to make a mistake so long as we know what we learn from it, and I think you know the coach is there to kind of, you know, ask those really important questions so that you don’t look as mistakes or errors as a failure. You look at them as, OK, this is how things can also go wrong. But these are the things I’m learning. So the next time I’m going to do something, these are the things I’ve learnt from it. And I think, you know, we all know that famous story about the invention of the bulb. I’ve invented ways of.
How not to create it so which means that you know ultimately it is about how long are you going to persist with something when you make mistakes. What are you going to learn so that you can continue to grow better and obviously you know also from the basketball legend, we’ve heard the same thing for every shot that you’ve you’ve seen me seen seen me hit the target. There’ve been numbers, which I’ve I’ve I’ve missed in practise et cetera. So you know is that kind of a mindset.
Darren A. Smith
I love those. It was it, Michael Jordan who said it took me years to become an overnight success. Was it him? Brilliant. Love. That love that writing, this success. All right, fabulous.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Indeed.
Indeed, yeah.
Darren A. Smith
Any last thoughts on the what what is this product before I talk about how we use it?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Yeah, I think you know, as I said, the product is basically a ready reconna for you to use. You know, as as as a manager, as a leader and something that you could use on your own as well. Just in case. If you don’t have an access to a code. So you know something that can really help you to think in a structured way. So you can go from this is what I want to achieve to this is what I’ve done about it. And these are the results I’ve gotten. And so this is what I learned and you kind of, you know, go through that iterative process of doing things, learning and becoming better. So in a sense.
Darren A. Smith
Now.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
It’s a coaching model. It’s a tool that allows you to continuously achieve, learn and repeat that on a loop so that you know you’re not limited by achieving the success in a project once. But this becomes a repeatable process wherein you continue to succeed and you continue to get better.
Darren A. Smith
Nice like that. So we’ve got our coaching questions that you’ve written in five stages.
Could you paint a picture for us of how do we use it? You’ve mentioned self coaching to one with the line manager, maybe even with the team, but in practicality, what does that look like when I’m at the office, I’ve got emails and phone calls and blah blah blah. How do I use it?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
I think first and foremost is are you willing to take time out and actually, you know, take yourselves out of the situation wherein you’re completely, you know, bombarded with number of distractions, you know, be it the colleagues who are talking around you be hit the emails, be it the pings on your phone, so on and so forth. This is an opportunity for you to say, you know what? I’m going to think about a goal that I want to achieve in a way that is structured and focused and you actually extricate yourself from those distractions and find yourself a time.
And then if you are, let’s say, you know, imagine yourself sitting in front of a coach or a manager or. Or maybe you know somebody who’s who’s there for you as your accountability partner. Right. And they’ve got this stack of cards in front of you, right. You could pull out a card and, you know, just as you showed one of those first cards to me, as do you know, what do you want to get out of this session today? Right on the objective side for that inquiry on objectives would look like, what goal are you?
Are you looking to achieve right? And then you know you can also sort of go through that smart fall or formula for really sort of refining that goal, right?
Darren A. Smith
Yeah.
Mm hmm mm hmm.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Once you’ve logged down on, what is it that the coach is willing to achieve, then you go through the next stage, which is around understanding the situation of it, and so the situation oriented cards will allow you that deeper inquiry. So what’s happening right now? What have you tried so far? What has worked well, what has not worked well, right? What have you learned from situations which have not worked well? Who are the other people who might be involved into this situation so you get a better picture of that situation. Then you move to the choice part of it, which is.
Darren A. Smith
Good.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Now you know this, right? So what are the different options that you have in front of you? What are the different choices? What are the different consequences, the pros, cons, the priorities, et cetera? And then you’re moving into the action stage, which is now you’ve done all of that analysis, what action you practically want to take, right? So you’d say this week I would do one next week, I might do something else.
So on and so forth. And is the coaching who takes control of that in terms of deciding what they’re going to do about the situation, right?
And then the review stage is obviously about. So what has happened in terms of the actions and what have you got as a result of it? What have you learned? What will you do differently, et cetera? So that’s how you know the model will look like in a typical conversation setting. So take any situation such as I want to be more healthy, right? So when you say I want to be more healthy, in what ways do you want to be more healthy? Is your you know?
Darren A. Smith
Yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
The the O part of it, right? What are you currently doing about it? Is the situations part of it? What are the choices you have? So is it about exercising more? Is it about having control lower your diet probably changes in the sleep schedule?
Probably finding a workout buddy, et cetera. So all the choices and all you know, and then you’re looking at actions. So what do you think you could be doing next, right and you say, you know what, I’m actually going to start with maybe, you know, have a walk around the lunchtime and I’m going to do that with my work buddy and we’ll probably do it for minutes. One action review stage would be like, did you actually do that? How did it go? What else could you have done, et cetera? Right. So.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah, yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
You take any situation and give you a very simplistic example, but you could then apply it to your career situation, your relationship situation.
Your life goal situation, drag and drop, but the model will still give you some really tangible and something worth working upon.
Darren A. Smith
And and I’m guessing a question I hadn’t thought of before until you sort of prompted it is in a one to one session. I guess we could just do one stage. We haven’t got to do all five or we could do a couple.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
And and and that’s that’s a great point, which is, you know, should every conversation follow the model fully right now, knowing a model is always useful. It’s a bit like when you go to a doctor, right, they don’t have to start with. Oh, I’ve got a pane here. So let let me put you on operation, you know, in the Operation Theatre. Right. I mean, there are stages. So you recognise the amount of time you have, you recognise what’s most valuable for the person.
In that conversation, what the model does it is it allows you that appreciative inquiry.
Into that certain stage, so that even if I minutes with you and in those seven minutes, what’s the maximum value I can create? Because I’m now willing to ask you powerful questions because I’m willing to invoke insight and discovery within you, right. And I’m listening deeply. So that means end of it. You’ll walk away with, you’ll walk away with something really tangible or you’ll walk away feeling better.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
For actually, you know, talking to me. So sometimes you may not be able to go through all the stages and that’s absolutely fine. But this is about learning the art of having a great conversation.
Darren A. Smith
Yep, Yep.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
That a model like Oscar can enable in you.
Darren A. Smith
Purpose. Purpose. Perfect. Let’s move on. If we made to the why? If you were to share with us your wildest dreams about people using this, what are they getting out of it? Why are they using it? What could they create?
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
So many different things, and like I said, you know, it’s one of the things that everybody should have access to in terms of more like a life skill for manager, right? I mean it’s it’s an essential element of how you can do your job well. Often I like to tell people if you take approach to managing as telling and teaching people how you’ve done it, you are limiting people’s potential to the success that you’ve been able to achieve.
However, if you turn it around and make it about the person in front of you.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
Their potential, their attitude, their attitude can create results much beyond what you were able to do. Which means as a manager you get the benefit of getting the most out of people because you’re changing your approach from telling to actually, you know, getting the most out of your people. And so I feel that’s the reason why people should be using tools like this now. What are the practical applications in which you can use?
Imagine somebody not having enough confidence to speak.
On a stage, right? Imagine somebody feeling confident, delivering a big presentation. Imagine somebody struggling to actually find the next job or a next gig, or somebody struggling in their relationship, or somebody wants to achieve a goal, like maybe I want to run a marathon, but I’ve only run K so far, right? You take any of these different goals the moment you, the moment you are willing to sign up to say, you know what, I’m actually going to put my mind.
Darren A. Smith
Yep.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
And think through that goal and what I want to do in a structured methodology.
I’m willing to be accountable for the outcome because you know, when you talk to a coach or a friend or a manager, et cetera, essentially what you’re doing is you’re giving them the freedom to hold you to account. And I feel real magic starts happening there because often when people try and do something by them, by by themselves own, often things remain as I wish right now from I wish.
Darren A. Smith
Yeah, yeah.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
To I will.
Is a massive difference, and when you actually use a tool like this.
Along with the person you trust, you’re actually moving that wish to a will, which is from something that’s uncertain, to bringing certainty to it. So your outcomes outcome becomes more real and doesn’t remain in your wish land.
Darren A. Smith
I’m going to ask you a slightly last, slightly different last question if I may. It’s always confounded me that the sports world every Olympian has a coach.
Most business people don’t, but why are we? Why do we struggle to make the transition from sports to business, coaching sports, coaching to business coaching? Why do you think that is? I don’t know the answer.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
And honestly, I do not know why that is in the sense that I really feel most people should be looking at having a coach and. And you know when people say I’m self-made.
Yes, you’re self-made, but then your success is limited by your own world view which is not being challenged enough, which is not being guided enough. And once you have a coach, you’re then willing to be challenged more supported, more guided, more, which means you can infinitely increase your possibilities. As against you know, trying to do it on your own.
Again in the sporting world, we think of coaches as people who’ve previously been there, done that, and so I can learn from them. But I think the real essence of coaching is.
I’m looking at somebody who will tell me what to do, but somebody whom I will go to and somebody who will be a source of listening, a source of wisdom, a source of confidence, a source of support, somebody who can also bring in tough love when it is needed. And that means that, you know, most of us then can actually go on to achieve great things. And so I feel.
There is greatness lying within all of us. It’s just that sometimes we do not want to be open enough and vulnerable enough to really tell the world that, look, this is what I want for myself. And that’s why you see all sports people will have coaches because you know they need it because they need to remain competitive. And most people, while they want to be that, they don’t want to admit that. You know what this is going to be a tough journey.
And.
Part of the reason why you must get a coach is because you say you know what I want great things in life and hence I’m willing to make a great commitment.
So that I I I can get what what I wish to get.
Darren A. Smith
An excellent point because I remember a picture I saw of Usain Bolt, who’s probably looks like he’s feet tall. But anyway he’s a he’s a big guy and then Glenn Mills, by his own words, is a short fat bloke. And Glenn says I can’t run as quick as him. And you saying in a wonderful Netflix documentary points to Glenn and says all that bloke does is ask me questions. Lovely.
All my coach does is ask me questions. Happens fabulous.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
And you don’t want the one of the other examples I’ve read only earlier this week is of a coach, you know, who recognised that the player that he was coaching was different from others and what every other coach would have done was to mould the player to play in a certain way. And this guy said, you know what, this person is successful because he does it in a certain way. And if I try and meddle too much around with it, he’ll probably not be as successful. And so.
As a coach, you’re also willing to then recognise that not every person sat across you is the same. So what works for one person may not work for another, and you need an experienced person to be able to recognise that. Recognise that to understand that individuals are different because their circumstances are different, their skills are different.
Their attitude to life is different and as a coach you’ll bring that non judgmentalism on the table and say you know what, I will allow you to be who you are.
Because that is aligned to your potential and we’re working together to increase that and increase your likelihood of success.
Darren A. Smith
When you talk like that, the image that’s in my mind, I don’t know whether it’s an urban myth, but it’s the image of the shark they put in a small tank and it only grew to this big rather than the size. It could be. It just seems to fit that perfectly. Wow, Yogesh, we’re going to call you Yogesh, Oscar Gandhi from now because that was a wonderful insight into Oscar. I hadn’t understood it like that.
And I’m into coaching, so hopefully for the folks at home that are watching that are watching, they’ve got a brilliant insight into Oscar. I think they have, they’ve got an idea how they can use these and maybe just start with one question.
And see what happens. Have you got a final tip before we let you get back to work? Final tip for the guys.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
I I just say I think you know, use the cards.
And and and see and see what it can create for you. It could be different things that different people want, but it’s it’s always worth trying. And often, you know when people say I want to do this. And so I’m learning this and et cetera, et cetera.
Often people are actually not taking actions and I feel like, you know when you’re looking at a model like Oscar.
There is an essential element of action.
It’s not just so much about learning or or talking to people or.
Trying to, you know, bring about evidences of I think I’m making progress on that. It is really about taking the actions and if I were to leave one tip with people, it is act.
Darren A. Smith
Hmm.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
And that gets you closer to, oh, what you wish. And it also kind of, you know, helps you move from a state, a state of not much is happening to you actually see something is happening and when something is happening it gives you greater motivation to continue. And when you continue you get closer and closer to your end goal.
Darren A. Smith
I like that simple word act. Yogesh, thank you very much for your time. Thank you for telling us about this product. Thank you for collaborating. Appreciate your time.
Yogesh Gandhi, Vodafone
It’s been a pleasure, Darren. Thank you so much.
Darren A. Smith
Thank you.
