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Use HBDI to Manage Conflict at Work
Looking to manage conflict at Work? Well, you can use HBDI, the Hermann Brain Dominance Instrument. Join us in this third instalment of this HBDI series with Darren Smith and George Araham.
You Can Read the Full HBDI Transcript Below:
Darren A. Smith:
Hi, you’re at the home of the world’s stickiest learning. My name’s Darren Smith, and this is George Araman. George, how are you?
George:
I’m great, Darren. Thank you. How are you today?
Darren A. Smith:
I am good. I’m good. I’m keen to share with our listeners about HBDI. This is the third in our series of podcasts and I’m just going to read the title out to make sure I get it absolutely right. It says I really don’t know how to manage conflict at work. Use HBDI to manage conflicts at work, so that’s the title of our podcast. And George has kindly allowed us to share his HBDI. Herman brain dominance instrument profile. So this is a profile. It’s a bit like Myers Briggs is a bit like disc. It’s a bit like insights. The reason we favour Herman is it’s lovely and simple, simple to use and it really just has four colours and it’s a it shows the thinking preference.
Darren A. Smith:
So there are blue, yellow, red, green and this shows almost the thinking preference of George’s brain. So what this tells us is he likes to think in the big picture, creative. He likes to think in the people feelings area. But when it comes to facts, struggles a bit and when it comes to form and structure. Plan he struggles with that as well. Now the thing to say is we can do all four colours, we can do all of this. My metaphor is that George does yellow and red in 5th gear and maybe blue and green in second gear.
George:
Spot on.
Darren A. Smith:
All right. So that’s a really quick summary and an overview of HPDI for anyone who hasn’t seen it before. George, what have I missed on there? Your news HBDI, what have I missed that people would want to know?
George:
So far, like from what you mentioned, it seems great. We already talked a lot in our previous podcast like how we can overcome the differences and how we have like I think what would be really interesting for us to delve into is with regards to conflicts, how what is the best way to like manage conflicts from different perspectives.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. OK. Well, let’s, let’s start with conflict hard now. I’ve been doing soft skills as a training provider for 20 years and I’ve come to 11 absolute fact on conflict. It’s hard. It really is. It’s exhausting. It takes energy, it consumes our brain. It’s those things that we lay down at night and think, oh, how did that happen? How did I get to that place? So conflict is not easy. And what I read a lot lately about is people. Let’s avoid conflict.
George:
OK.
Darren A. Smith:
Just can’t you imagine there’s seven 8 billion people on the planet. With all these microcosms of banging together and they’re gonna bang together, they’re going to have conflict. They’re not going to think all the same way. And do you know that’s all right. We don’t have to agree.
George:
Yeah. And it’s a good thing, or else with the own robots. If I’m thinking the same way.
Darren A. Smith:
Well, we would, we would. Well, let me give you an example. So George, what’s your favourite food favourite meal?
George:
Depends on the like. I would say sushi or pizza or.
Darren A. Smith:
OK, so you love sushi. I mean, I happen to as well, but let’s say you love sushi and I didn’t. And I liked only fish and chips. That’s OK. Now we have a small conflict there. We don’t have to disagree, but let’s take that into the more passionate disagreements that we might have. It’s still OK. It’s still OK that you have a different perspective to me. And maybe that’s a good thing that you have a different perspective to me.
George:
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
OK, so conflict is hard.
George:
I was just like, I was just wondering if you had like. In in your years of experience as a trainer, if you could give us an example of a conflict that you experienced or that you witnessed. That can maybe represent each of the four quadrants, the blue, the red, the like either on both sides or in the same side. So for example a red fighting a red, yellow, red or yellow and maybe like the opposite quadrants and how things were. Like we’re actually diving deep into the practicality and things now.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s good. That’s good. Well, let me do it in two ways. First, let’s do it. Something close to home. Moving home, our house, our home. Where we all go back to. So let’s take these, these four colours. So if a blue is buying a home, well, let me ask you. They’re the facts. But fact based people, what do you think they’re looking for in a home?
George:
OK. How much does it cost? How much can I sell it later on? Is the location prime? How can I improve? Sorry.
Darren A. Smith:
How far is go?
George:
Yeah, basically everything that’s factored like how many square metres is the apartment? Do we have a garden? Do we have a terrace? Do we have, like, any secret chambers?
Darren A. Smith:
Yes. Yes, brilliant. And it might be. It’s 3.1 miles to the school. That’s an interesting fact. It costs £150 to heat it per month. OK, these are all facts. And the Blues are absolutely right. They’re seeking information.
George:
True. Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Then then let’s move over to our yellows. Our big picture people. What are they looking for, do you think?
George:
Actually the example I just gave, so they’re looking for the Harry Potter kind of secret chamber, the big ideas, the beautiful. Villa that is hidden somewhere in the wander nurse or maybe in the middle of the like something beautiful. Big, inspiring something. When you wake up, you’re like, whoa, this is my home. So it’s more like it’s a bit close. I think when it comes to home with Reds and yellow. But maybe the idea is bigger. You know, if it makes sense.
Darren A. Smith:
OK, OK. So these guys were looking for a home. They’re looking for. How does it sit within my life? Can I live here comfortably? If we’re a young family, will it allow us to have another child? Could I knock down that wall? Put that wall in and make a lovely Conservatory. These are the things that yellows are looking for. So they’re, they’re creative. They’re big, picture their future. And then let’s come to our greens. Our next steps. What do you think these guys are looking for in a house?
George:
So when how are gonna we do the installments? When are gonna we pay the installments? How many installments can we pay?
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
George:
How far is maybe the house from the office?
Darren A. Smith:
You’re right. They’re planning their day. They’re planning their new. Yeah, they’re planning weekends where they’ve gotta go and visit the in laws. They’re thinking about all those good things. All right, fabulous. And then let’s come to our Reds. Our feelings. People type people. What are they looking for?
George:
Planning and process and stuff like this. Yeah. The feelings I wanna live by the sea. I wanna live by the mountain. I wanna live here. This reminds me of that. This is. Oh, I’m nostalgic. I’m looking at there and like those kinds of things.
Darren A. Smith:
Brilliant. Brilliant. OK, so we understand our four quadrants and how they think. Now let me ask you a question. Are any of them wrong? Of course. So what we then have is, let’s say these four people were buying a house together and the Blues pushing for the facts and the yellow for the creative, and you get the idea. But none of them are wrong. And what we’ve got to do is accept that people have different views to us and it might be using the Herm model that we can then talk about each other with each other as third party. So I might say to you, George, I want to buy this house. I’m a yellow. You’re red. I can see why you feel that way.
Darren A. Smith:
That’s important to you. It’s important that it feels good because it’s next to the sea and I’m, oh, I want to knock down this room and change it into three rooms. You might say, OK, I can see that vision. Thank you for helping me.
George:
That’s easy part.
Darren A. Smith:
So none of none of these perspectives are wrong, and yet they all cause conflict. And the more conflict happens across because it’s harder to understand.
George:
Yeah. Now this is like I was gonna ask like imagine you have a Philly like a red person versus a blue person. One is gonna talk about feelings, the other is gonna talk about facts like no, the investment is gonna cost like £500,000. The other is gonna be like be like. But I love this home with me. It’s me. Feel nostalgic. It makes me feel. So how do you resolve that conflict? How can you like each one understands logically or in their mind. But like the their visions are like so far apart that.
Darren A. Smith:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’s tough, it’s tough and it’s not gonna be easy. Conflict coming back to what I said is hard. So the first step is accepting that everyone thinks the same way we do. OK, so I think, like this, I accept. You feel like that or think that or think this way. So that’s the first part. The second part is we need to be able to articulate it.
George:
Yeah. OK.
Darren A. Smith:
So I’m articulating that because I’m yellow, I think like this, I see this and that will help with the communication because I’m a red. I feel this I’m going to try and expand all my feelings to help you understand him and then wouldn’t it be great if we can put all those views together and buy the house that suits them all?
George:
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Or agree a way that we might problem solve it together. Where we’re what we’re not going to do is take 4 coloured straws, pick one and that’s who we go with. But we might agree that one of the first things we need to accept is that we’re going to buy in this price and our return on investment needs to be this.
George:
Yeah. So we’re back to Edward de Bono.
Darren A. Smith:
Yes, we’re back to Edward de Bono talking about our previous podcast. You’re right. And what it means is that the group put on the blue hat. Let’s all think in the facts. Then let’s all think in the yellow. Then all in the ad, all in the yellow, all in the red. And if we can all do that, then we’re not just fighting against each other. That’s the idea.
George:
Mm hmm.
Mm.
Love it. Love it.
Darren A. Smith:
So conflict at work is being able to articulate what we think. HBDI enables us to do that because we can talk about ourselves and others as a third person. I understand you’re agreeing, therefore you need this. And then it’s also problem solving by wearing the hats together. That’s how teams can work Better Together.
George:
OK. And like out of curiosity, would you say like, let’s say we’re a firm as a firm, so, OK, so this is like probably like team members having to solve a conflict in the moment. So there’s a conflict that just popped up and that that they are trying to solve. What if they can anticipate like they can anticipate or envision the problem before it arrives? So how can each of the four quadrant prepare before a problem arise, let’s say for example?
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah.
George:
Our company at the end of the year has a depth they need to resolve and they know about it six months or. Nine months ahead, they need to plan how they’re going to resolve that conflict and each one you know, is in in their direction. No, I’m the marketing department. I have the ideas here. No, I’m the finance department. You have to do that. So how can they all come together? You’re probably going to tell us. Yes, you have to use 6 thinking hats with Edward de Bono. But is there a way where like we can prevent it before it happens?
Darren A. Smith:
Yes, there is. There is. You cannot make conflicts better when you’re in conflicts, because we’re just not going to listen to each other. We’re probably not going to listen. So the way we need to make conflicts better is to sow the seeds on water them outside of conflict. What I mean by that is we need to build trust. We need to build understanding. I need to accept that you, as a read have a valid feeling about this. And if I accept that all the way along because I trust you and you do good work and the other values that I have.
George:
If it makes sense. OK. Yeah. Love it.
Darren A. Smith:
And we share them. Then when it comes to conflict. It’s going to be bang, it’s going to be OK. Let’s see if we can listen to each other and make one-on-one equal 3.
George:
I love it. I do like I’m. I’m pretty level to advocate in the sense that let’s say, I don’t know, you’re a blue. I’m a red, I’m let’s say. When it comes to business, nobody likes to be the feeding type in the sense that, let’s say, we all come here, OK, we use the six thinking hats and everything. We all have this thing, but at the same time, it’s in general. And when it comes to business, we people tend to have a perspective that it’s always the Blues and the yellow and the greens sometimes the yellow that’s like are the ones that. Should have the finance say or the solutions and everything and the rent? Well, they’re just like, OK, they have lots of passion. They’re very touchy feely etcetera. It’s great, but it’s not very business like.
Darren A. Smith:
You can see why you’d say that, and it’s probably taken me 20 years to completely understand Herman at such a deep level. I can now answer that really simply.
George:
Love it.
Darren A. Smith:
The reason most people go to a job and they chose that job, I accept some people have to work, but mostly we chose where we go and we don’t like it every day. But we do like it is because they like that job. They like those people, they like that work. And all of that comes from the red.
George:
OK, that’s interesting.
Darren A. Smith:
We’re only there because of the red, we only do the stuff we do because of the red. I’m only doing this podcast because I’m passionate about HPDI and you and I get on it comes all from the red and yet lately 10 years ago I thought the same way this red we could just cut out and get rid of it. But actually it’s the whole passion, the whole reason we’re here doing anything.
George:
Mm. OK. Marvel, it’s a great reminder.
Darren A. Smith:
It is, it is. And if we can water those plants, those seeds before we get to conflict, then we can learn to share our feelings with each other, which is the red. And yes, it sounds a bit pink and fluffy, but wouldn’t it be great in particularly in the day of in this modern world of mental health, where I can say to which comes from the red, I really my brain’s not with it today. I’m just I’m struggling, but we don’t. Well, that comes from the red. Let me share proceedings how I’m doing and let’s see if we can create a sense of a team that trusts each other and then we can move mountains together.
George:
I love it. I have a curiosity question. Curious question so I don’t know. Like if we can categorise the four quadrants in a way like the heart, the mind and everything. I think the red would be the heart and the yellow would be the spirit.
Darren A. Smith:
Yep. Yep, guess so.
George:
And the blue would be the brain.
Darren A. Smith:
Yep.
George:
What about the green then? Is it the body?
Darren A. Smith:
I think the blue and the green are. Yeah, it could be. They’re they’ll probably share a similar brain the, the left brain as we know it. The blue and the green probably are the brain. The yellow is the soul and the red is the heart. Maybe is how it works maybe.
George:
OK.
Darren A. Smith:
It could be it could be. Now let’s come back to your question around understanding the different colours and conflicts. It can probably be harder now. This is a sweeping statement. I may later retract.
George:
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
Can be harder for the Reds with conflict because they feel it more.
George:
No. OK.
Darren A. Smith:
It can be now that means that they also have to take ownership and accountability for their own thinking style red. Maybe they can be too passionate. Maybe they can go up very quickly and come down. But they’ve also can’t use that as an excuse. I’m sorry I blew my top, and now I’m back. Well, be your top. That was your fault. That was your responsibility as much as it as it is for a green game. This is conflict for me. Absolutely the same face.
George:
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
They’ve got to take responsibility for that as well.
George:
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
And so each colours got a compromise and move towards understanding another colour, the other colours and accepting the way they are in conflict has a particular disadvantage and advantage.
George:
Knock everything in life.
Darren A. Smith:
Of course. So the Reds might blow up the Greens just absolutely look cold. They’re robots. The Blues might be like that to some extent. And the yellow say, who cares? Yeah, life is life. So la vie.
George:
Indeed, indeed. Just out of curiosity getting I have lots of curious questions today for some reason. If we’re to compare it with, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the attachment styles.
Darren A. Smith:
Nope.
George:
OK, then it’s a it’s fine. I was because in attachment size, when it comes to relationships or like not just personal, but like any kind of relationships like you have like the anxious attachment you have, the avoidance you have. So I was just trying to figure out like which of the which of the four relates to the four, I know they don’t really literally blend in, but like just trying to like put a map for it.
Darren A. Smith:
You. You’re trying to overlay one model on another. OK, So what are? What are the different attachments you’ve got anxious. You’ve got avoidance.
George:
Yeah, exactly. So yes, so we have anxious, we have avoidant, we have secure and we have a mixture of disorganised, let’s say so, which is a mixture of avoidant and anxious.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. Well, I think that would be tough in the moment for us to overlay one model or another, but it might be interesting for our readers who know the attachment model and are starting to learn the HBDI that they might want to be able to do it maybe, maybe, OK. All right. What are the Curious George questions do you have?
George:
OK, yeah. So I do have some. OK. OK, for some reason. I’m out of questions.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. Well, that’s alright. Well, let’s come back to a summary. So the the podcast title is, I really don’t know how to manage conflict to work, use HBDI to manage conflict to work. So if I were to do a summary, I would say you can’t improve conflicts when you’re in it. Yes, it’s a bit like stubbing your toe. You walk around the house, you stub your toe, and you think I must move that kids Lego. But it’s only when you stab it, you think of it. All right. Now what we’ve got to do is try and move the Lego when we don’t stop our toe.
George:
OK.
Darren A. Smith:
This has to be the watering of the plants before conflict so that we build up trust. We build up teamwork, we build up. You think like that, I think like this. So when we come to conflict, it’s not as it’s more listening.
George:
I love it. Thank you. I your answer gave me your give me a question so. How much trust do each of the four quadrants need to have in order to be comfortable to be able to solve this conflict? Like how much would the red have to trust the blue, or how much of blue has to trust a red, et cetera, et cetera, more or less like a range. I know it’s not going to be perfect, but just to give an idea if like.
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah. I’m not sure I’m gonna be able to answer that, so I’m gonna try and give our viewers something. That might help. This is the trust equation.
George:
OK.
Darren A. Smith:
Is not us hugging intimacy is. Do I know a little bit about you? Do you know a little bit about me? I know that you like sushi and it can be quite small. It doesn’t have to be really deep stuff. And all of this is killed. This trust is killed by self orientation, so I can have all of these things. But if I only waffle on about me your trust of me will do that. Right? So these are four parts we’ve got to build up. And Herman HBDI helps us to do that. And it’s only when we can tick a box in all four.
George:
Love it.
Darren A. Smith:
Not that one tick. Yes, yes, yes. But we have trust. And once we have that trust, conflict is a lot easier because we respect each other’s work, respect each other thinking differently. And that helps us that when we do get to those conflicts, they’re not.
George:
OK. It’s a powerful tool to use actually.
Darren A. Smith:
Yes, yes, and particularly because it helps us get beyond talking about each other in feedback, which no one really likes. But it helps us have this tool where I can say, oh, I see why we’re I’m giving you that presentation. You’re rather picky on the images because yellow is quite a visual thinking style, whereas the numbers you’re not so good. OK, so let me do the numbers. I’m good at that, for instance. And you do this part and I’ll particularly accept your thoughts here.
George:
Yeah.
Darren A. Smith:
And then between this, wouldn’t it be great if we can deliver a fantastic PowerPoint presentation because you and I have done this which has equaled 3 rather than that equaling 1/2 because we just don’t agree and think we’re idiots.
George:
Yeah. Love it. So do you think, for example, when it when teams are working on PowerPoints, would it be a good, a good idea to have it like using HBDI that each quadrant goes through the presentation and adds their own simultaneously or one after the other? And is there a rank like for example, should we start with the blue? Or it depends on the project or?
Darren A. Smith:
Yeah, it’s a good question. Let me answer it like this. Let’s start with who we’re presenting to.
George:
OK.
Darren A. Smith:
Let’s understand what colour they are and if we don’t know their colour, we’ll try and do all four, but let’s say they’re a blue and I’m a red, then what I’d really like to do is go and grab my blue colleague. Having written my presentation and say they’re a blue, what do you think of this as a blue? Well, I changed this right because we want to talk the language of the person we’re pitching to. If I’m talking yellow. Into a blue. It may as well be French and German.
George:
And that’s Nuggets for next time.
Darren A. Smith:
Alright, so Josh, any other questions?
George:
I’m good.
Darren A. Smith:
OK. Thank you. So we’ve got another podcast coming up. We’ve done a previous podcast on negotiation and teamwork. This one’s on conflict. We’ve got another one coming up next week, and that’s our series of four podcasts that we’re doing all around. Hermann Brain dominance instrument and helping you to use it better. All right. So, George, a big thank you to you.
George:
Thank you, Darren.
Darren A. Smith:
We’ve been here with the world’s stickiest learning, and we’ll see you next time.
George:
See you next time.
Darren A. Smith:
Take care.
George:
Take care.
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